In episode 355 of Store Discuss Reside, Ben, Anissa, and Amanda open with a listener query: “Who’s your best woodworking inspiration?” As an alternative of selecting a single determine, they every share who’s inspiring them proper now. Amanda talks about repeated visits to the Wharton Esherick Museum and the work of artist–woodworker Katie Hudnall, whose sculptural cupboard items have pushed her to suppose past conventional furnishings. Ben offers an honorable nod to their boss, Mike Pekovich, and focuses on chairmaker Peter Galbert, praising his relentless refinement of course of, generosity in device innovation, and large contributions to Windsor chairmaking. Anissa says she’s “simply impressed,” drawing concepts from all the things from her son’s sushi tray design to current Effective Woodworking shoots with makers like Doug King, Chris Schwarz, and Megan Fitzpatrick, in addition to the philosophies of James Krenov, Hank Gilpin, and Chris Becksvoort.
This leads Ben to ask what single object every individual would select to iterate on for the following decade. Ben chooses ladderback chairs (if he couldn’t make baritone ukuleles). Amanda gravitates first towards cupboards and in the end towards puzzle packing containers. Anissa first says packing containers, then realizes she’d like to commit herself to creating lighting. They joke about opening a joint showroom for “puzzle packing containers, ladderback chairs, and lighting.”
The second half of the episode options Grant Christensen, president of Blackwing Pencils. They focus on Blackwing’s historical past—from Steinbeck and Chuck Jones to the Nineties discontinuation and the model’s revival. Grant explains how they reintroduced Blackwing utilizing premium incense cedar and Japanese graphite, and the way the pencils foster intentional, tactile creativity in a digital world. The group nerds out over graphite firmness, the brand new woodworking-themed Blackwing 21 (their first sq. pencil), limited-edition “Volumes,” and Blackwing sharpeners. The episode closes with Ben connecting the shared ethos between Effective Woodworking and Blackwing: a dedication to “chasing perfection.”
Each two weeks, a group of Effective Woodworking staffers solutions questions from readers on Store Discuss Reside, Effective Woodworking‘s biweekly podcast. Ship your woodworking inquiries to [email protected] for consideration within the common broadcast! Our continued existence depends upon listener help. So in the event you benefit from the present, be sure you depart us a five-star score and possibly even a pleasant touch upon our iTunes web page. Be part of us on our Discord server right here.
Present transcript:
word: ChatGPT couldn’t determine that Mike was within the final part. No person reads this, it’s actually simply right here to feed the robotic overlords, so I’m not going to take the time to repair it.
Ben: Welcome to Store Discuss Reside episode quantity 355. It is a nice episode for individuals who return to the time of—let’s see, I feel there was an episode with Mike, Barry, and me within the studio. Keep in mind the studio earlier than COVID? We bought to speaking about pencils, and I can’t let you know what number of pencil conversations I’ve had primarily based on that episode.
Nicely, I can’t consider I’m saying this: Mike and I are joined by Grant Christensen, the president of Blackwing Pencils, to speak about pencils—to geek out about pencils and woodworking and all kinds of stuff. If you’re a pencil head like me, like Mike, like Amanda, like Anissa, like Vic, like all of the cool woodworkers, it’s an attention-grabbing episode.
Blackwing reached out. They wished to share some pencils with us. We talked about the podcast, and Grant listened and stated, “Hey, I need to discuss to those weirdos.” So yeah, we’ve bought a enjoyable episode.
Additionally, Anissa, Amanda, and I focus on a few of woodworking’s unanswerable questions—like, who evokes us probably the most? And as with every dialog with Anissa and Amanda, it goes off the rails and we’ve a superb time. So yeah, buckle up. You’re in for a trip.
Ben: Anissa, Amanda, Ben—are you prepared for this? I do know Amanda’s all the time recreation for these things, however Anissa, I feel these things makes you squirm.
Anissa: It does, yeah. When any person asks me my favourite season or my favourite coloration, I’m like, “Why do I’ve to choose only one?”
Ben: Nicely, that’s why. Okay, so Siggy requested on Discord—and we’ve already determined we’re not going to reply it precisely as requested. Siggy asks:
“Who’s your best woodworking inspiration, craftsperson or designer? Why do they encourage you and the way have they influenced your work?”
I imply, Siggy, great query, however approach loaded past all perception, proper? It’s so broad. I can’t pin it down. And one more reason it makes me squirm is as a result of this sort of stuff comes up on the podcast invariably. Possibly it’s embedded in one other query, or we detour into it, and I can’t bear in mind what I’ve stated previously. That’s a part of it. And there’s any person sitting there indexing all the things I say.
So we determined to show it into: not “best,” however “a number of individuals who have impressed us these days.” I’m actually studying from Slack: “I feel we must always do a tackle answering this Monday. Possibly not ‘best,’ however possibly we must always every speak about a number of individuals who have impressed us these days.” I had three in my head hastily, however I assume I didn’t write that half down, so I’m not going to carry anybody to 3.
Does anyone—okay. This isn’t definitive, proper? However I feel it’s a superb likelihood for us to speak about who’s inspiring us these days. Amanda, do you need to begin?
Amanda: Positive. No strain. So lately I went again to the Esherick Museum, and I don’t know if Anissa has been. Ben, have you ever been?
Ben: I’ve not.
Amanda: It’s unimaginable. Each time I am going—that is just like the fifth time—I uncover increasingly more. Yesterday I noticed on Instagram that Katie Hudnol received runner-up for Maker of the 12 months for Wooden Evaluation for the items she had on the Museum for Artwork in Wooden.
That piece—the Cupboard of Misplaced and Discovered Issues—and Esherick’s work type of tie collectively for me. Esherick and Katie’s work transcend the scope of furnishings. It’s extra of an artwork method. That’s been actually inspiring for me these days: not limiting myself to only furnishings and exploring {that a} bit extra.
In order that’s simply two out of many, however these two tie collectively for me proper now. They’ve been a giant inspiration.
Ben: You’ve been to the Esherick Museum 5 occasions and also you’re nonetheless seeing new issues—that claims rather a lot. When you go there, you perceive simply how dense it’s. He made all the things in that home. You might in all probability go 50 occasions and nonetheless choose up on the nuance of his work in only one piece, not to mention the entire home stuffed with all the things he made. You must go.
Amanda: I do know. It’s unimaginable. If solely I knew individuals to go along with who lived close by or labored there, proper? I imply, Lissa nonetheless says she’s discovering issues.
However I don’t suppose that’s truthful, as a result of I’m fairly positive she’s pulling drawers out and searching beneath them, discovering bizarre notes that no one else would see. I feel she in all probability will get extra out of it as a result of she has higher entry than anybody.
This time I went, my buddy Casey—who truly lives on the compound—gave my buddy and me a non-public tour. We have been capable of open drawers. I wasn’t touching something, however he may. He’s capable of look into stuff that doesn’t go on the everyday tour. It’s simply unimaginable.
Seeing Katie’s work too—this cupboard that received the award is constituted of issues she picked up whereas touring. We’ve an entire video on it that I’ll hyperlink within the podcast notes. I like the concept of taking woodworking past furnishings. Having that “limitless” view of woodworking usually has been actually inspiring. I’ve an enormous listing, however these stand out these days.
Ben: I’ll go along with one and purchase you some extra time, Anissa.
So I nearly wrote down—effectively, I’m going to provide him an honorable point out on the best way to speaking about any person else. However since he’s our boss, I believed, “You’ll be able to’t say Pekovich.” One factor I’m impressed by in Mike’s work led me to my actual reply.
I find it irresistible when individuals take into consideration the tiniest element of a woodworking course of. Mike’s purpose is all the time to dial in his processes in order that his college students are assured success in a category. I feel that’s unimaginable.
And another person like that, who thinks about course of and obsesses over it—and over guaranteeing success within the methods they use—is Peter Galbert. He’s continuously pondering—like at 11:30 at night time earlier than mattress—about the way to enhance a device or course of by one-tenth of a p.c.
I don’t know of anybody who has introduced extra to—would we name Windsor chairs a style?—to that world. He’s taken what Dave Sawyer and Curtis Buchanan have accomplished and fine-tuned the processes greater than anybody may think about. After which, within the course of, he’s invented instruments and handed these designs off to different makers to allow them to create and promote them and make a dwelling.
The best way he does issues like that simply evokes me to no finish.
Amanda: That generosity too.
Ben: Yeah, that generosity. Past making extremely stunning, authentic chairs in a world the place you’d suppose each chair has already been made, he’s additionally doing it from a woodworking-technique standpoint. He opens his studio to different creators. He’s beneficiant and thorough. In order that’s my first one. I’ll come again round.
Nicely, that was type of like two. Pekovich was on the best way to Galbert.
Amanda: Honorable point out.
Ben: Yeah, however I couldn’t put him down as a result of that will be kissing the boss’s butt, proper? So I’m not going to try this. I’ll say one thing imply about him later.
Amanda: That balances the scales.
Ben: Pekovich, you don’t reply to emails persistently—and it drives me nuts. See? Proper again down.
Amanda: I don’t suppose he cares in the event you’re aggravated that he’s not answering your emails promptly. That was very impartial. That’s me. That’s Amanda. Assured.
All proper, I assume the strain’s on me now. I ought to preface this complete factor by saying I’m simply impressed. It doesn’t take rather a lot for me to be impressed by one thing so simple as a birdhouse or a slicing board—if any person makes me take a look at that piece in a barely totally different approach than I usually would.
For instance, my child made a bit of sushi tray, and he made the 2 toes on the underside. He had a little bit of contrasting wooden within the tray and he oriented the contrasting wooden on the toes in opposition to that. It was tremendous cool. Quite simple venture, actually well-crafted for what it was, however that additional little element—the best way the wooden contrasted and was juxtaposed beneath—I believed, “Bam. That’s so cool. I don’t know that I might’ve thought to do it that approach.”
Sure, he’s my son, so I’m biased, however my level is: it doesn’t take rather a lot to get me pondering, “Oh, that’s actually cool,” and that begins me occupied with one thing else.
I’m additionally in an excellent privileged place: I’m round so many individuals doing such cool issues on a regular basis that I actually do depart each shoot impressed and jazzed to go house and get again into my store (which by no means occurs). However I depart each shoot with a minimum of 4 or 5 actually cool tidbits that I’m lucky sufficient to see in individual.
For instance, I used to be lately in Montana with Doug King. He was doing a glass-top finish desk that’s arising in a problem. He had so many iterations of this desk. I bought to see both pictures or completed items of every model and see the design evolution in individual and the way excited he was to go from right here to right here to right here—after which how environment friendly he made building of the ultimate piece primarily based on all the things that got here earlier than. That impressed me, and his pleasure impressed me.
A few weeks earlier than that, I used to be at Misplaced Artwork Press with Chris and Megan doing the “Smalls” article that I feel is perhaps in the identical difficulty—I’m getting all of them convoluted. Simply seeing them bang out these initiatives with a hammer and nails, tacking collectively these actually cute, tremendous useful designs—that’s going to be a fantastic article too. That impressed me.
Then I restarted studying Krenov’s books. That’s tremendous inspiring.
I may go on about all of the totally different individuals. Hank Gilpin—holy cow. Once you go in his store and see the best way it’s arrange, and once you pour by way of the drawings he does to get to a completed piece—the technical excellence and complexity of what he does, plus the unique designs—that’s inspiring.
Then Chris Becksvoort—he’s managed to be the Shaker man, however even in his authentic work you possibly can see it’s an authentic piece that also holds to that Shaker ethos. That’s inspiring.
Once I’m scrolling Instagram and see any person who simply began woodworking and the way rapidly they’re evolving—that’s inspiring. I ought to cease now.
Ben: I like that you simply went from “that is an icky query” to answering it in one of the simplest ways attainable. It’s very, “My title’s Anissa, and all the things on the earth is inspiring to me.”
Anissa: I imply, it’s. It comes again to why I’ve been within the job so lengthy and why I nonetheless actually just like the job. I’m simply the most important woodworking nerd on the market. It’s actually cool stuff.
Ben: Can verify: huge woodworking nerd. Although I’ve a tough time saying “largest” once you’re on display subsequent to Amanda, as a result of Amanda’s a reasonably large woodworking nerd too. Belief me.
All proper, I’m going to derail this now, since you stated one thing that made me suppose. I’m on file as actually solely making one factor and iterating on baritone ukuleles. You two although—like Doug King iterating on a venture—what would your “one factor” be?
You must take your woodworking and commit to 1 factor to iterate on over the following ten years. What would that be?
Anissa: Oh man. I’m a Libra. I’m not taking part in this recreation. I don’t know. That’s a tough query. You’re stressing me out. Now I’m anxious.
I imply, packing containers are actually cool, proper? They’re nice to provide away, you possibly can retailer all types of little stuff in them. A field might be a field on a stand, it might be a dresser—
Ben: She’s Pekoviching it.
Anissa: Oh God, I’m, you’re proper. It might be a bookshelf. The field. A field. The world is a field. The world is inspiring…and a field. Field me in.
Ben: Okay, Amanda, you’ve had time to squirm.
Amanda: I’d lean cupboard. I’d lean wall cupboard. Wall cupboard or cabinet-on-cabinet. It’s a field additionally.
Ben: That’s once more too good of a solution. I don’t know what I’m purported to say after that. A cupboard. Possibly not essentially wall, however some type of cupboard.
I feel you each picked “one thing that holds issues.” You each dodged it, and that is going to come back again up. I need an actual reply someday. This sucks.
Are you speaking a few very particular—like, I feel it must be extra particular. Like Schwarz’s coffer—that type of field, the place it’s: “That is what I make. I make coffers.” Or Cullen along with his bandsaw packing containers. There must be extra specificity.
I don’t even make different ukuleles. I simply make baritones.
Amanda: So that may’t be your reply. You want to give you one thing else.
Ben: No, I’ve my reply. I already stated it: baritone ukuleles.
Amanda: Yeah, however that’s what you already do. You’re making us decide to a distinct type.
Ben: Yeah, as a result of I’m the host.
Anissa: Oh, actually? Then I’m sticking with field. I’m making packing containers.
Ben: Effective. What if it have been like what Craig Thibodeau does—like puzzle packing containers?
Amanda: Oh my God. You recognize the place my mind’s been. If I had the time and functionality, I might completely do one thing like that. Somebody swoops in and says, “Right here’s a dwelling stipend,” blah, blah, blah—that’s what I might lean into: puzzle packing containers.
Ben: Transferring components. I by no means noticed that coming.
Amanda: Actually? I believed you’d completely see that.
Ben: Now my new purpose is: Amanda will get to only make puzzle packing containers.
Amanda: Sure.
Ben: And I might put aside a dwelling stipend for Anissa to make packing containers.
Anissa: Unpuzzle packing containers. Simple-to-open packing containers. I don’t need to step on Amanda’s puzzle-box toes.
Ben: That’s what Krenov did too, proper? He refined that cabinet-on-stand type.
Anissa: Yeah.
Ben: However wouldn’t his refinement actually be the handplane?
Okay, query quantity three: on the finish of the day, do you suppose his handplanes have had extra impression, or his cupboards on stands?
Amanda: I feel his items.
Anissa: Yeah, I lean that approach too.
Ben: You’re proper. And woodworking tooling is its personal class.
Anissa: That claims one thing although—that his Krenov-style handplanes are a monument within the woodworking world, however his work itself nonetheless stands by itself. You’re making a device that helps you create stunning furnishings, packing containers, no matter. I feel that appealed to lots of people: making a device you’ll then use to make one other stunning piece of woodworking, artwork, sculpture, no matter you need to name it.
That additionally feeds into a whole lot of his philosophies. I feel that’s why it was so effectively obtained and resonated with so many individuals.
Anissa: So what are you making, aside from what you’re at present specializing in, Ben?
Ben: No, no, I’m not answering.
Anissa: Oh, proper, since you’re the host.
Ben: All proper, let me suppose. One factor I’ve accepted is I’m an iterator—is {that a} phrase? That’s what I take pleasure in about robots a lot: actually quick iteration. However then I notice, “Oh no, I’m on ukulele quantity 9 proper now, simply iterating.”
If I needed to—and if I couldn’t iterate on these two issues—I feel I’d be drawn to possibly ladderback chairs. You’ve bought stylistic issues you possibly can all the time work on. Consolation issues you possibly can all the time work on. You’re all the time making an attempt new components: is it extra comfy with the lean this manner, or the play that approach?
There’s useful stuff too. A cupboard on a stand is great, however it’s not one thing you work together with as a lot as a eating room desk or a chair. A chair is a part of your each day life. So that you’re interacting with it on a number of ranges past aesthetics: it must be comfy.
And with ladderback chairs, there’s a number of room for honing and dialing in your processes. I take pleasure in that greater than something: determining new processes, like Peter Galbert.
So if I couldn’t do baritone ukuleles, possibly it might be—effectively, the simple reply could be alto or live performance ukulele. Or parlor guitars. But when I couldn’t do this, I’d do ladderback chairs. That’s my reply.
Amanda: I like that.
Anissa: Okay. I’m going to alter fully: I might do lighting.
Ben: Oh my gosh. That’s a very good reply. You could have impressed me. That is what I’m speaking about—simply listening to you speak about ladderback chairs…
Anissa: I feel I might do lighting.
Amanda: Nice reply. Now mine’s lighting too. I’ve been impressed by you.
Ben: All proper. So Anissa: lighting. I can see you doing actually cool lighting. That’s a very good reply. Okay, you get a dwelling stipend from my lotto winnings too.
Anissa: Okay, cool. Thanks.
Ben: So: lighting, puzzle packing containers, ladderback chairs. Right here we go. I prefer it. We have to get a joint showroom someplace.
Amanda: Possibly only a web site.
Ben: We’ll have to consider a superb title for it: lighting, ladderback chairs, and puzzle packing containers. I’m going to give you one thing.
So, Anissa, you realize what the remainder of this episode is about, proper?
Anissa: Pencils.
Ben: Sure. Discuss obsessing over one factor. It ties into refinement. All proper, we’re going to take a break. Once we come again, extra pencil discuss than you may presumably abdomen—and it’s nice.
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Ben: Now for the hard-hitting questions from the journalists at Effective Woodworking journal. We need to know… why is it a 602 and never a 601?
No, I’m kidding. I began occupied with all of the methods individuals geek out on issues most individuals undergo life by no means occupied with. There’s any person obsessing over the match of a woodworking joint you don’t even see. There’s any person obsessing over the hole within the door of a Porsche 911 that no one else cares about—they only need to go quick or get from level A to level B.
Considered one of my favourite geeky obsessions is pencils. At Effective Woodworking we’ve all the time thought we have been a bit of excessive. It occurred organically—we simply began obsessing over pencils, then we saved shopping for one another pencils, and it grew to become a factor.
And by some means we’ve the president of Blackwing, Grant Christensen, on the podcast proper now. It’s wild to me that not solely is there any person on the market geekier about pencils than even Mike Pekovich, but additionally prepared to come back on the podcast and speak about pencils. It is a woodworking podcast, however we’re going off the rails at the moment.
Grant, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us.
Grant: No, thanks for having me. I’m a listener and a fan, so it’s nice to be right here.
Ben: You’re a woodworker, I hear?
Grant: I’m, a bit of bit. I grew up with my dad all the time making issues within the storage. He constructed cupboards for our home, Christmas toys, furnishings—he was all the time doing stuff—however I by no means had the curiosity. I used to be all the time taking part in sports activities or taking part in music.
Just a few years in the past, my spouse and I purchased our house, and we had a proper eating room. We’re not likely formal eating room individuals. I stated, “This may be a very cool spot to construct a bar.” We bought some bids for an L-shaped bar, and my dad got here in and stated, “Oh no, we are able to do this.”
I believed, in spite of everything these years, that’d be a very cool father–son venture. For that first venture, I purchased a chop noticed and a drill press—these have been my first two instruments. We constructed that bar collectively and I used to be hooked.
Ben: That’s superior. Two nice instruments. The drill press is commonly missed. I don’t know in case your father pushed you to get the drill press, however that was a clever choice.
Grant: He completely did. I’m fortunate to have it in my blood. My dad was a really profitable customized house builder. My grandfather ran a neighborhood lumber yard. So it’s type of within the blood, however it by no means actually hit me till my late 20s, after which it clicked.
It’s humorous: it occurred about the identical time we introduced again the pencil. As we have been speaking about earlier than we began recording, I’m a musician as effectively. I’d stopped making music for years. Proper across the time we introduced again the pencil, I began making music once more—writing and taking part in guitar—and I began moving into woodworking once more.
From day one, we got down to give individuals an outlet: a approach to make use of a distinct a part of their mind and get in contact with their senses. I’m on a pc display all day, as lots of people are. The pencil is only a device that does that. It’s not a coincidence that I bought into woodworking and again into music across the similar time we began this Blackwing journey.
Ben: That’s superior. So, listeners have heard this story earlier than. Mike undoubtedly has. I went to highschool for musical arranging, and we’d geek out about pencils. All people would seek for the “best” pencil. One arranging instructor stated, “Yeah, however you’ll by no means know the enjoyment of utilizing a Blackwing 602.” That instantly bought implanted in my mind.
He went on about the way it was the right lead, the right all the things. Once you’re writing charts all day, a Blackwing 602 is pretty much as good because it will get. He had a stash, and he’d allow us to use one. It was a factor.
Years later, I used to be on eBay and located a charity public sale the place somebody was promoting a field of ten 602s. Beginning bid was $100. That’s some huge cash for me at the moment; it was rather a lot for me again then. I got here nearer to draining my checking account than I ought to admit.
Once you all reintroduced the 602, as quickly as I came upon, I went attempting to find one. Are you able to give us a bit of backstory about Blackwing—the model and the resurgence?
Grant: Positive. It had this cult following courting again to the Nineteen Thirties. John Steinbeck famously hand-wrote the primary draft of Grapes of Wrath with a Blackwing pencil. Chuck Jones used it to create Bugs Bunny, and he went on file saying that with out high quality instruments like a Blackwing, he didn’t know if Bugs Bunny would exist.
It was nonetheless very area of interest, although. Small enterprise. Within the mid-’90s, one of many machines that made the clip contained in the ferrule—the factor that permits the eraser to be extendable—broke. A big company (who I received’t title) owned the model at that time. They didn’t know the backstory, and it was such a small piece of enterprise on paper that they only discontinued the model. It disappeared.
Round 2010, pencil bloggers began reminiscing about Blackwing pencils. The household that owns our firm has been within the pencil trade because the 1800s. The Barrel household are actually pencil royalty. The core of their enterprise then was wooden provide—particularly California incense cedar, which is one of the best wooden for making pencils. Folks discuss in regards to the clean end on Blackwing pencils and the centered leads; that’s pushed by the high-quality incense cedar grown in Northern California and Southern Oregon.
As a result of we had one of the best wooden and the household had been within the trade so lengthy, we knew the place one of the best graphite was and we knew one of the best artisan woodworker in Japan who may make pencils to the standard of Blackwing. It began as a enjoyable venture greater than something: “Can we convey again the Blackwing pencil?”
The primary pencil we made was what we now name the Blackwing Matte, as a proof of idea. It took off. That’s after we bought severe and stated, “Okay, let’s take a look at the custom. How can we convey again the Blackwing 602?” It began as, “How can we convey these pencils again?”—not even realizing if individuals would care—however we wished to see what a brand new era of artistic individuals would suppose.
From there, it’s grown right into a tradition of individuals trying to decelerate. The pencil is a device, and we make journals and different high-end stationery merchandise too, however actually we’re making an attempt to get individuals to decelerate. Everybody’s on screens, and that’s not going to alter. But when we are able to get individuals to make use of a distinct a part of their mind and faucet into totally different senses—even the scent of the graphite, in addition to the texture of pencil on paper—it’s a method to convey stability to life and stay extra deliberately.
Ben: I feel “intentional” is an efficient phrase for it. Mike, you’re in all probability probably the most protecting about pencils, probably the most pencil-minded individual I do know. What does the intentionality of a superb pencil imply to you?
Mike: To start with, I’ve many idols and mentors in woodworking. I’ve talked to lots of them. I’m not often starstruck. However I’m at the moment.
Pencils are big for me. Like all the things in my life, I are usually very specific: the pants I put on, the T-shirts, socks, footwear—all of it must be precisely the identical, precisely proper.
Considered one of my jobs at Effective Woodworking as artwork director is doing a bit of chicken-scratch thumbnail sheet of each single article in each single difficulty for in all probability the final 20 years. That is my mind, and all of it occurs with a pencil.
For a very long time, it was a Ticonderoga No. 2, made in Mexico with a cedar core—not that punky white wooden you get in a field of 24 pre-sharpened pencils at Staples. That was my go-to without end. I all the time had a few brand-new, very sharp ones. Throughout editorial conferences, if anybody touched my pencil, they saved it. “Don’t contact my pencil.”
Some years again I used to be instructing at a type of woodworking occasion, and Michael Cullen, one in every of my heroes, was instructing as effectively. He gave me this quick, stubby silver Blackwing and stated, “Right here, Mike, do that out.” The very first thing you discover is the eraser—sq. and lengthy, which is fairly cool—however the minute you write with it, you suppose, “Okay, that is very totally different. It is a pencil.” Plus, it was given to me by somebody I actually admire. That emotional connection meant all the things.
I purchased a field of the silver pencils, and now all my articles are laid out with that pencil. Within the store, I exploit the clear-finish pure one. I feel it’s the toughest lead you have got, however it’s nonetheless not “hard-hard”—it seems like a very good No. 2. Then in fact I needed to get the two-stage Palomino sharpener to get the precise level I need.
So after I say I like your pencils, it’s not “Oh yeah, I like pencils.” It’s: that is integral to my skilled artwork path profession and my woodworking. It’s the pencil I exploit. So thanks very a lot. I’ve stated it.
Ben: I all the time discover myself speaking about good instruments usually. With a field of fifty low-cost whatevers, I can lose ten and never care. However I can let you know precisely the place, typically, I’ve a 602 on my desk, and one other on my again bench wall. One is for my pocket book stuff, one is for woodworking.
I even have—I consider it’s an Eras—one other firm-lead pencil. A buddy gave me half a field and I find it irresistible. I even go as far as: my spouse bought me purple erasers, so I put purple erasers on my Eras so I can establish them rapidly.
All of that to say: I don’t lose these pencils. I don’t simply depart them mendacity round. Once I choose up a superb pencil, I’m extra intentional about what I’m doing. I sharpen it, be certain that I’m getting a crisp line, possibly sharpen it a bit of too far after which blunt it simply so.
Have you ever discovered that most individuals are the identical approach along with your pencils? In my head, I may in all probability survive the remainder of my days with—going out on a limb—4 packing containers of Blackwings. I’ve greater than that within the store proper now. Whereas low-cost pencils, I may in all probability undergo 400 in my lifetime. Is that one thing your followers speak about?
Grant: Yeah, it’s. One of many cool issues about how this complete factor has unfold is: sure, we put sources into advertising and so forth, however I feel in the event you tried to pinpoint the one primary approach individuals find out about Blackwing, it’s from a buddy—somebody gifting them one.
It’s a very wonderful neighborhood. Somebody will purchase a field of pencils and share half with individuals they suppose will take pleasure in them. That’s the way it spreads. That communal facet—what it means, and the best way individuals use all of them the best way right down to the nub, such as you stated—individuals don’t throw them away. They hold monitor of them, but they’re prepared to provide them to anyone they suppose will respect them.
Ben: That’s a wierd however cool distinction. It’s one thing you cherish, however it’s additionally one of many first issues I’d give away in a heartbeat to anybody who expressed curiosity.
I had one caught in my hat at some point. I used to be on the ironmongery store and the clerk stated, “Oh, Blackwing pencils,” and I noticed he’d heard of them. I introduced him a number of and one of many two-stage sharpeners as a result of I’ve a number of too many round right here. In the event you categorical curiosity in a Blackwing pencil, I’ll in all probability offer you a number of.
Grant: I met somebody as soon as—fairly profitable within the music trade—who stated, “Oh my gosh, Blackwing Pencils!” He advised me he’d been at a present, speaking to this musician buddy of his, Willie Tea Taylor. Willie had a Blackwing in his hat, pulled it out, gave it to him, advised him the story, and stated, “You appear like any person who’d respect this.” That was how he found Blackwing. There are all kinds of tales like that. It makes this motion that rather more satisfying.
Mike: Yeah, I’m undoubtedly the Johnny Appleseed of Blackwing pencils. I train a lot of programs all year long. I’ve bought three or 4 pencils in my apron, and each time they get too quick to stay out of the pocket, I give them to a scholar.
Due to the podcast, my fame is starting to precede me. I’ll be instructing and college students will say, “Is that the Blackwing pencil you employ?” And I’ll say, “Yep. Right here, have a bit of shorty on me.” Identical factor with my daughter, who’s a potter, not a woodworker—she even is aware of about Dad’s pencils: “Do you suppose Dad would give me one other one in every of his pencils?”
I wasn’t actually conscious of Blackwing earlier than you introduced them again. I don’t know if there’s a debate amongst diehards, like pre-CBS vs. post-CBS Fenders. Is there any debate about perceived high quality of outdated versus new?
Grant: Probably not. Possibly on the very starting, when some traditionalists have been detractors simply because they have been traditionalists. However as extra individuals tried them, most stated they’re a minimum of comparable, and rather a lot say they’re truly greater high quality.
The method is so intricate. The complete course of—particularly the woodworking and shaping—is extraordinarily detailed. It begins with two pencil slats: rectangular items of wooden. Beads of graphite go on prime, then one other slat on prime, like a sandwich. They get sliced into squares, and from there they’re formed into pencils. They need to be completely milled, completely fine-tuned, to take the ending—like a 602 has 11 totally different coats of lacquer as a part of the ending course of.
It’s a really intricate and costly course of. That’s why it went away: these pencils are tough and costly to make. They promote for $35 a field, not $2. That’s the one approach they’re viable. Lots of people didn’t have the know-how to make pencils at that degree of high quality, and even when they did, they won’t be prepared to make them and promote them on the value they’d must.
We have been fortunate to have a household who knew the way to make these pencils. From there, it was about religion and a bit of little bit of madness.
Ben: You talked about excellent centering of the leads—that’s not one thing I might’ve considered, however it completely impacts the general use of a pencil. The core must be completely centered.
What’s the reject price on a batch of pencils? Are you tooled up so all the things simply comes out excellent? As a result of I’ve by no means had an off-center pencil from you.
Grant: Each pencil is touched by hand at our facility in Stockton, California. Each pencil that is available in is hand-inspected. It touches any person’s arms. We’ve had a reasonably good price thus far—to not say one thing couldn’t slip by way of the cracks, however we do all we are able to. Actually each pencil is dealt with earlier than it goes out.
Ben: Okay. So I’ve in my arms… I assume that is how it began, proper? Do you need to discuss in regards to the 21?
Grant: Positive.
Ben: What’s the 21? It’s a brand new… it’s a Volumes pencil, proper?
Grant: Sure. About ten years in the past, we began what we name the Volumes program. It performs off the Blackwing 602 being a mannequin quantity. No person is aware of why it’s 602; it was only a quantity.
So in Volumes, 4 occasions a 12 months we put out a limited-edition pencil tied to one thing that we as a artistic neighborhood suppose is a crucial individual, place, occasion, or subject that we need to shine a lightweight on.
The very first one, ten years in the past, celebrated the anniversary of Bob Dylan plugging in on the Newport Folks Competition. We made a pencil with a sunburst end just like the guitar he performed that 12 months. That was the primary one. It was restricted, they usually have been gone in every week. We thought, “Okay, possibly we’re onto one thing.”
We launch 4 a 12 months, and as soon as they’re gone, they’re gone. We by no means convey them again. There’s a collectibility to it. We’ve accomplished some actually cool ones over time.
The one I’m holding proper now’s a tribute to the seventy fifth anniversary of Joe DiMaggio’s 56-game hitting streak. It brings consideration to baseball scoring by hand.
We’ve all the time wished to do a woodworking pencil, and this newest version is our first tribute to woodworking: the Blackwing 21. Each Volumes quantity has significance; on this case, it’s an ode to the outdated saying “measure twice, lower as soon as” (two and one). It’s additionally our first sq. pencil. All our pencils are hexagonal, aside from the Man Clark pencil we did a number of years in the past, which was spherical. This one is sq., with properly rounded edges.
Ben: I used to be questioning if it was sq. to maintain it from rolling off workbenches, as a result of I’ve seen this one simply stays the place I put it. So why sq.?
Grant: That was a part of the inspiration, completely. We felt it match, and we hadn’t accomplished it earlier than. It took us a few years to get the tooling and all the things proper—the right form and really feel. A few early prototypes had corners that have been too sharp. It took some time, however we’re excited it’s out. Folks appear to essentially dig it thus far. It’s been actually fashionable within the first week.
Ben: So that is restricted as effectively?
Grant: It’s, sure.
Ben: Huh. Nicely, you took most of them, Mike, so don’t come trying to me.
Mike: I solely grabbed three or 4.
Ben: I felt the sq. and thought, “That is totally different. I don’t like totally different.” Then I picked it up and it’s tremendous comfy differently. It has a singular really feel. Now I’m pondering, what if I actually like this and I need to change over, and I can’t? I must mood myself.
These are on the market in your web site nonetheless?
Grant: They’re, sure.
Ben: Mike, you have been excited that they went with the agency lead, proper? Need to discuss in regards to the woodworking facets of a agency lead pencil?
Grant: Positive. We mainly supply 4 varieties of lead: smooth, balanced, agency, and further agency. We began with three choices and known as the center one “balanced” as a result of it was between the opposite two. The agency one might be closest to what most individuals would acknowledge as a No. 2 when it comes to hardness, however it’s fairly a bit darker.
Then individuals began asking for one thing firmer. The primary time we did that was for a pencil that paid tribute to Steinbeck. We met his solely dwelling son and daughter-in-law. He helped us design what he thought would have been his father’s superb pencil. He stated, “This agency pencil is nice, however my dad would love it a bit of firmer. He appreciated a very sharp level.”
We experimented and made the primary additional agency pencil as a Steinbeck tribute, and other people beloved it. Now we provide it in our common line.
So there are 4 choices, and it’s actually simply choice.
Ben: So that will be the Pure?
Grant: Sure, in our core lineup, the Pure pencil is additional agency.
Ben: So the agency is often the 602—the silver one?
Grant: Proper. The Matte is the softest, the Pearl (white) is balanced, the 602 is agency, and the Pure is additional agency with that Steinbeck core. Lots of people like that.
There are individuals who, after we make one thing just like the woodworking pencil in agency, say, “Nice!” However a number of say, “I want it have been softer.” It’s all private choice.
Ben: What’s the silver? That’s the 602?
Grant: Sure, the agency lead.
Ben: Okay. I all the time equated “602” with black. That’s cool to make clear. For me, within the store, all the time wanting a pointy level, I actually like additional agency. However for all of my thumbnailing and format work, I like that subsequent step down—the agency 602. So thanks for placing each out.
It’s additionally cool that typically a scholar brings in a field of mixed-color Blackwings. I’m guessing these are from the Volumes subscription, proper?
Grant: Sure. This system began as a subscription. We do promote them individually now, however subscribers pay yearly and 4 occasions a 12 months they get a field of pencils. We hold them secret till they arrive on their doorstep. We ship to subscribers earlier than we publicly launch and announce the version. These individuals get them first, they get a reduction, and each version has a bonus tied to the subject.
Like this time, we put a bit of velocity sq. in subscriber packages and talked about what a fantastic utility device it’s for woodworking. It wasn’t meant as a full-on product, only a enjoyable tie-in.
Ben: I used to be about to leap on eBay if there have been a “Blackwing velocity sq..”
Once in a while a scholar will herald a field of mixed-colored pencils for me as a result of they know I like Blackwing. I’ve bought a number of packing containers like that. They’re tremendous cool, however I by no means fairly knew what the lead firmness was. So these are often equal to the 602—agency?
Grant: Proper. And a few 12 months in the past, we began blind-stamping most of our pencils with the title of the lead on the barrel—“smooth,” “balanced,” “agency,” or “additional agency”—so it’s simpler to inform.
Ben: I did discover that. That is the primary time I’ve seen that on a pencil. Most of my stash predates that, in order that is smart. Study new stuff about pencils.
Do you need to speak about sharpeners for a minute? I do know I’m an enormous fan of the two-stage sharpener. There are different sharpeners within the Blackwing arsenal, although. Do illustrators go for one level kind versus others? What’s the purpose of getting a number of sharpener traces?
Grant: The 2-stage sharpener you talked about—the primary gap sharpens the wooden, the second sharpens the graphite and provides you a protracted level. Some individuals suppose it’s too lengthy; it’s not as sturdy and might break in the event you put a whole lot of strain on it.
So we even have a one-step sharpener that sharpens the pencil to a extra scalloped, shorter level that lots of people like. It’s a bit of stronger.
The latest addition is a desktop sharpener we spent about three years growing. Our product developer, Alex Poirier, put a ton of labor into getting the tooling and all the things good. For these watching on video: it seems like a field; you insert the pencil and it pulls the pencil in by itself as you crank. For audio-only listeners: it’s a guide sharpener, not electrical, and it’s very quiet.
There’s a bit of dial on the again the place you possibly can select the purpose size—from a protracted level just like the two-step sharpener to a shorter, extra scalloped level.
We’re additionally engaged on a sharpening knife that I’m hoping will come out subsequent 12 months. It’s one other venture we’ve been engaged on for some time. We’ve bought some actually cool prototypes.
Ben: Sharpeners. All proper, I’ll purchase that later—that is turning into dangerous podcasting as I store.
There was a ebook that got here out a number of years again—Artisanal Pencil Sharpening. Had been you conversant in that? Did that play any half in a resurgence in handcrafted pencils?
Grant: David Rees was the title of the man who wrote that ebook. Earlier than the ebook got here out, we’d seen what he was doing on-line and we did a bit of promotional video of him sharpening a Blackwing pencil and the way to sharpen a Blackwing.
We have been so small and so younger—in all probability solely a 12 months into the Blackwing relaunch—and instantly the video bought one thing like 100,000 views in a single day. For us, that was off the charts. It was actually cool in these early levels to point out off what he did. He undoubtedly helped convey consideration to pencils.
Like I stated, lots of people don’t get it. They provide you a puzzled look: “You do what with a pencil?” However for individuals who do get it—that’s our neighborhood. It’s as a lot a tradition and way of life model as it’s a product. David was one of many first individuals to assist form that tradition.
Ben: So that you’ve bought that specific cedar you employ, plus ending experience—you talked about 11 coats of lacquer on the 602—and the tooling that goes into it.
Earlier (possibly earlier than we began recording), I joked about looking for the graphite recipe. You stated you don’t comprehend it. Is it a household secret type of factor?
Grant: We use a graphite producer in Japan—a really small, very artisan home. I’ve been there, I’ve seen it. I do know what it seems like, and I do know the standard. As for the precise ratio of clay and graphite, they comprehend it, and other people rather a lot smarter than me comprehend it. I don’t.
However I do know what it ought to really feel like after we check pencils throughout QC, to verify all the things is on monitor. Fundamental pencil lead is basically clay and graphite—these are the 2 primary substances.
Ben: All proper. What are the opposite Volumes popping out this 12 months—or you possibly can’t say?
Grant: Can’t say. Subscribers will know first; that’s actually the primary time anybody is aware of what a brand new Quantity seems like—when it arrives on a subscriber’s doorstep. Just a few days later we announce it and supply others the possibility to purchase that version. We do 4 a 12 months, mainly as soon as 1 / 4.
Ben: Cool. Thanks for approaching and geeking out about pencils and all that. It’s one thing we’re obsessed with, and it’s type of become an inside joke amongst ourselves and the listeners.
When your group reached out to the Effective Woodworking account and stated, “Hey, we’ve bought woodworking-inspired pencils,” I believed, “You don’t have any thought how excited we’d be.” The concept of you approaching—half the workers is freaking out proper now. So thanks, from our little pencil-nerd tradition to yours.
Grant: It’s nice. Thanks. Any person in your workers—Liz Knapp—as soon as known as it chasing perfection. At Effective Woodworking, within the belongings you construct and the journal and all the things you do—whether or not it’s furnishings or media—you’re all the time chasing perfection. Clearly at Blackwing, we share the identical affliction.
Ben: Most undoubtedly. Cool. All proper, that does it for this episode of Store Discuss Reside. Thanks a lot for listening and interesting and all of that.
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We’ll be again in two weeks with one other episode. Have a fantastic one.
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