STL356: Unconscious Competency – FineWoodworking

On this year-end episode of Store Speak Dwell, Ben Strano and Vic Tesolin run by way of a grab-bag of “quick-fire” questions that rapidly flip into considerate, meandering conversations about how woodworkers really work. They dig into sharpening self-discipline and the way studying to cease early is usually the important thing to working higher and with much less frustration, debate when it’s price altering blades or saws for ripping versus crosscutting, and confess their very human struggles with hoarding scrap wooden and “good” boards saved for the proper challenge. Alongside the best way, they speak candidly about instruments that didn’t dwell as much as expectations, what they at all times carry within the store, snacks and low breaks as a part of a wholesome workflow, and the second when woodworking begins to really feel intuitive moderately than compelled. The episode wraps with reflections on expertise, instructing, and the concept of “unconscious competence”—that time the place instruments turn into extensions of your arms—making it a relaxed, trustworthy, and becoming near the 12 months for the podcast.

Quickfire questions answered:

• How have you learnt it’s time to sharpen, and the way do you get your self to simply accept it?
• Do you really change blades for crosscutting and ripping? Do you really change handsaws for crosscutting and ripping?
• How small is just too small when hoarding scrap wooden?
• What’s the longest you’ve had the right piece of wooden mendacity round?
• Favourite home hardwood?
• What software did you stay up for shopping for, however you have been disillusioned whenever you obtained it?
• Snacks within the store? Sure or no. If sure, what’s your favourite store snack? 
• What’s your EDC within the store?
• When did you are feeling such as you knew what you have been doing? 

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Each two weeks, a workforce of Advantageous Woodworking staffers solutions questions from readers on Store Speak Dwell, Advantageous Woodworking‘s biweekly podcast. Ship your woodworking inquiries to [email protected] for consideration within the common broadcast! Our continued existence depends upon listener help. So when you benefit from the present, remember to go away us a five-star score and possibly even a pleasant touch upon our iTunes web page. Be a part of us on our Discord server right here.

AI Transcription to feed the web optimization robotic overlords:

Ben:
All proper, Vic, thanks a lot for approaching. You might be, um, you aren’t in your house territory, however you continue to agreed to return on and document with me for this final episode of 2025.

Vic:
That is how a lot I like spending time with you, Ben.

Ben:
Effectively, I imply, I’m a present given to all of the world, however some indulge greater than others, and you’re one.

Vic:
I’m, for positive.

Ben:
However, so, um, uh, a couple of month in the past or so, Amanda got here up with this checklist with the Discord server for quickfire questions, and there are many actually good questions right here which can be, like, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna be so fast. We’ll see, however I assumed it will be good. The thought was that we may ask—we may have a set of inquiries to fill an episode and begin conversations.

And I feel it’s obtained to start out with you and me, as a result of, yeah, you realize, um, we gotta set that bar. You may drag out a easy reply. It’s me and also you. Pay attention, we amuse one another. That’s all that issues.

Vic:
That’s all that issues. It’s an viewers of two.

Ben:
All proper, so, really, one or a number of of those questions are from me, uh, as a result of I feel I began it on the factor, however from me: Vic, how do you get your self to simply accept that you simply’re not sharp proper now?

Vic:
Oh. So the very first thing that I—it’s OK, that’s oddly technical and philosophical on the similar time. Yeah, yeah. I—I didn’t screw round. No, no.

And so, when you’re searching for fast hearth, I feel you’ve already thrown a wrench in our plans. However, um, right here’s what I feel. I feel that you need to get comfy together with your sharpening method. Sufficient to the purpose the place you don’t have a minor panic assault whenever you assume your instruments are uninteresting.

OK, proper? And so, like, I imply, I do know they’re uninteresting, as a result of they inform me they’re uninteresting, proper? If I’m paring with a chisel on finish grain, let’s say within the case of a dovetail—like, if I see I’m beginning to get wooden fibers pulling out, I do know I’m uninteresting. Yeah.

Proper, after which, however the issue is that it’s like, nicely, you begin to have that rationale in your head. It’s like, nicely, it’s nonetheless reducing, and, like, that floor actually doesn’t matter, so, like, who cares? After which simply maintain hitting tougher.

Um, after which it’s the identical factor with the handplane—it’s a no brainer. Since you’re getting these lovely shavings, after which rapidly, it simply stops taking these shavings. And the one factor that’s modified is the truth that your blade has turn into uninteresting.

After which, I keep in mind as a newbie not desirous to, as a result of I wasn’t assured in taking the blade out of the airplane and with the ability to get it again in, and like working, the best way it took me 20 minutes to get it within the first place. However actually, the one approach you are able to do that’s to do it.

And so, you need to get comfy together with your sharpening method.

I’ve obtained it to some extent now the place, um, as a result of I take advantage of the Tormek, like 95% of what I’m doing is simply sustaining an edge utilizing the leather-based wheel. And I don’t should re-grind or no matter, so it’s actually like ten—no matter—seconds on the strop.

However you might port that over to a Japanese stone setup the place it’s similar to, I’m similar to ten seconds on an 8,000-grit stone, proper? Clear it up, hit the again to take away the few micro-burrs which can be there, after which return to work, proper?

And that each one goes to, like—so, like, after I train sharpening, I at all times inform folks you need to grind as soon as after which polish endlessly, proper? And the entire thought behind that’s that if I catch my—as quickly as I see somewhat little bit of tear-out, like from the tip grain with my chisel—I cease, go over my Tormek. It’s like I flip round, it’s proper there, growth, I hit it for ten seconds, and now it’s reducing contemporary once more.

Proper? So what I’ve completed is I’ve eradicated plenty of the issues that may trigger an individual’s stress with sharpening, which is like placing it into the jig. Placing it into the jig correctly, ensuring I obtained the proper angle. Make certain I obtained my—you realize, within the case of Japanese water stones—when was the final time I flattened these guys? Like all of that stuff, I principally completed away with all of that.

And if I do one thing catastrophic, like hit the sting of a software with one thing arduous—no matter—and I get like a chip or no matter, it’s like, OK, nicely then it’s like: deep breath, then do the remedial work that has to get completed.

However typically sufficient, it’s like simply getting comfy with what you’re doing, so that you simply don’t get that thought in your thoughts, like, “Oh, I don’t wanna do that.”

Ben:
OK, so my take—my little addition—’trigger I agree with virtually every thing you mentioned: I want I have been higher at stopping or performing rapidly, and I feel that will assist apply to… I’m good with like gouges—carving gouges—doing that. Um. I want I have been higher about it with chisels.

So why are you good with carving gouges, however not with chisels?

I feel, nicely, I’m not gonna lie, I push chisels approach farther than I ought to have. Actually ought to. Like I like—nicely, nicely—as a result of I don’t use chisels fairly often. OK. And I simply assume they’re at all times able to go. I’m gonna do a pair fast issues with it—simply zip, zip—after which they go proper again up.

However like a month or so in the past, we have been taking pictures a video, and I used to be chiseling out a hinge mortise, and I pulled my chisel out, and it was like: there’s this quarter-inch chisel that’s chipped, and right here I’m—I’ve to do that on digicam and hope nobody catches that this chisel is chipped.

Um, I felt deep disgrace, however chisels are one factor that there’s no excuse for not rapidly zip them.

I’ll say a airplane: if I’m pulling the blade, I’m going again to the 1,000-grit stone. I’m not gonna hit my highest grit and strop or, you realize, do the very best. I’m simply gonna return, ’trigger I—I simply need to ensure that it’s completed.

And one factor that actually settled that for me is like: if I’m going to my 1000 or if I actually should go to my 300 diamond, it’s like, man, that first one is the one one which’s gonna take any time as a result of I take advantage of a honing information. So it’s similar to that first one, after which every thing else is, like, you realize, ten seconds. Ten seconds, ten seconds, transfer on together with your life. Put it again in, and also you’re good.

Um, so, planes. Planes, I’m somewhat extra diligent about, as a result of they’re—they’re actually getting, you realize, it’s distinctly attainable it’s the completed floor.

Chisels, I’m not so nice at, despite the fact that I ought to be, ’trigger it’s simpler.

However I’ll say this: the factor that actually cemented that entire factor is that the conclusion that the longer I wait, the second I discover a chisel or a blade probably being uninteresting, the longer I’m going, the longer it’ll take to sharpen it. And that realization is like, dude, you’re—you’re strolling away from it. The goal is true now. The extra you go—

Vic:
In order that’s 100% proper—yep, precisely.

And, in reality, I’m going one step additional, so after I reduce—so, for instance, I’m gonna train a category domestically making a dovetail field. And so I created a dovetail field for images and all that different stuff. After which you find yourself with three or 4 chisels in your bench that you simply’ve been utilizing to craft these, proper? They don’t return on the wall. They get touched so that each time I put the chisel again, it’s sharp.

Ben:
And also you’re a greater man than I’m. As a result of I do know if I seize it off of there, it’s uninteresting, I’m gonna be so tousled, as a result of I’m like, I’m beginning this with, like—

, lots of people say that, too. About, like, cleansing the store after each challenge, in order that every thing’s again the place it’s alleged to be and every thing, you realize what I imply? Like, I strive to do this.

Um, you realize, it’s that entire 5S state of affairs that the Japanese at Toyota labored out years in the past, and it’s like, for me, if I can do a reset—even when it’s like a reset of like, OK, I used these three chisels; I do know I simply touched them up a bit whereas I used to be working, however I’m simply gonna rapidly contact them up once more, after which put them again on the wall; that approach, after I seize them tomorrow, they’re sharp.

Yeah. You’re proper. You’re proper, Vic. It doesn’t imply it’s simple to do, and I used to be by no means good at it. And I’m not good at it in another a part of my life. Like, my workplace desk is a disaster. Like, there’s stuff all over the place; there’s—however I do know the place every thing is. And you realize, all the opposite lies we inform ourselves, proper?

However, um, the one different place I’m diligent with it’s with college students. Like I’ve a folder, I’ve a file for every of my college students so I can journal—principally the place we’re at, what we’re engaged on, and all that different stuff, as a result of there’s nothing worse than somebody who’s coming to pay—you need to study—and also you’re like, the place did we go away off? Yeah, proper?

So, the place it actually issues in my life is figure with college students and chisels. In any other case, I’m nothing else, nothing else. All the things else, simply write me off.

All proper, in order that was a fast reply. That was really not unhealthy, really.

Um, all proper. Oh, right here’s one other one I did that’s actually good. I’m so good, um.

So, um, this one was extra a desk noticed factor. However I really simply printed—printed—in your “No desk noticed, no drawback” article. Uh, do you—and let’s say that is gonna apply to trace saws, or hand saws now—do you really change blades or saws for crosscutting and ripping?

Vic:
Mm, that’s a great query. Um, all people says they do. So after I did use desk saws, it completely—I might change it each time. And the reason being that I didn’t really feel a mixture blade would do it. Huh.

And so, um, with the observe noticed, I discover most of the time—I don’t typically rip with the observe noticed, as a result of I’ve a bandsaw. Yeah.

And so, the bandsaw is what I realized to tear on, proper, after I was a pupil, as a result of we have been forbidden then at Rosewood to tear hardwood on a desk noticed, as a result of at the moment, these have been outdated Canadian-made Generals that had like zero security options on them. There wasn’t even a splitter.

And so it’s like when you attempt to rip hardwood with out a splitter, and it bows in there, it’s gonna shoot it proper again out. So, after all, as a result of these have been, you realize, good saws—they have been like, you realize, 5 and 6 horsepower—such as you weren’t stopping the blade.

And so, um, yeah, oftentimes I take advantage of the—like with the observe noticed—it’s technically a mixture blade that they—you realize, the as-provided noticed blade.

I’ve a rip blade for a observe noticed, and I even have a devoted crosscut blade, however that’s extra for veneered merchandise—like, if I’m veneering one thing or no matter—as a result of it simply has that entire triple-chip pre-scoring state of affairs.

However like, I might say that due to my workflow, 90% of the time, the blade that initially got here with the observe noticed is what I take advantage of.

Ben:
OK. What about hand saws?

Vic:
Oh, at all times the suitable—rip on it. Yep.

Like after I reduce dovetails, whether or not it’s with a—with the, um—oh, I say that. I say that, however, uh, I’m type of lucky to have a number of from Mark Harrell’s saws, and I requested him to file them hybrid.

Ben:
Identical.

Vic:
Which is principally like, you realize, a rip with a little bit of fleam, proper? Nevertheless it’s nonetheless like 70% a rip noticed. So, I’ve just like the Dangerous Axe carcass noticed—the lengthy carcass noticed—and that’s the one that’s in somewhat holder proper subsequent to my bench. And that’s, let’s be trustworthy, 98% of the time the handsaw that I seize.

I do have a dovetail noticed, um, however I solely use it if I’m dovetailing skinny inventory as a result of I simply don’t prefer it half inch or beneath that, as a result of in any other case the carcass noticed is simply—I imply, that factor simply goes whoosh proper by way of skinny inventory with out pondering twice.

It’s somewhat aggressive for that, however yeah, I’m a hybrid file fan.

Ben:
And, um, I don’t assume I’ve ever switched the desk noticed blade from rip to crosscut or something like that? So, what’s in your noticed? What’s in your desk noticed?

Uh, in my desk noticed, I simply have a Forrest 8-inch mixture blade. Okay, yeah, a Woodworker II or no matter.

And once more, since I’ve that little bizarre desk noticed, uh, you realize, getting different blades for it’s—I really assume you should utilize observe noticed blades on it, relying, as a result of the arbor—that’s the issue.

Vic:
Effectively, the arbor is the issue with my noticed, proper, yeah, so—

Ben:
Oh, as a result of it’s like, no matter, 20—prefer it’s metric. It’s 20 or 18 millimeters. Yeah, it’s like a—it’s metric. I don’t know what it’s, however, um.

Yeah, however, uh, I barely use my desk noticed. Um, however at work on the Advantageous Woodworking store, I simply use crosscut for every thing, so, so.

All proper, uh, Groggy Rat asks: how small is just too small when hoarding scrap wooden?

Vic:
Uh, so the important thing time period in that query is hoarding. OK, in order that’s the important thing time period, to my thoughts.

So, my rule was once, uh, if it was shorter than ten inches, it obtained burned.

Ben:
Wow.

Vic:
As a result of ten inches is, uh, the smallest I can safely put by way of my thickness planer. OK.

Ben:
Wow, there’s a stable motive.

Vic:
Proper, as a result of in any other case I’ve to do every thing by hand. Or—and in some instances, like, don’t get me improper, there are some items of wooden which can be shorter than ten inches that I’ve saved.

However since I began studying find out how to flip, now you acknowledge that like a four-inch piece of eight-quarter—you might get three initiatives out of that.

Ben:
Yeah, yeah. Like I may make ten pens—nicely, no, not fairly—however you realize what I imply.

Vic:
Like, so, for me, as a newbie turner, like, I simply form of put into apply the identical factor I’ve been instructing about flat woodworking my entire time is that—you simply gotta do it. Simply gotta do it.

And it’s like, so I made numerous ugly bowls and containers simply to apply, proper? It’s like, OK, I’m solely gonna reduce this with a skew, after which I’m gonna get tons of catches, and I’m gonna study tons from that. After which, you realize, no matter, no matter.

So it was once ten inches, however now I—like, if it may very well be—if it’s a turning clean now, then, you realize, as a result of when you take an finish off a board, let’s say a chunk of walnut that has a little bit of a examine in it, proper, and it was an eight-inch piece, however the examine is like two inches in. So you may get a six by six.

Ben:
Proper, nicely, that’s a six-inch bowl.

Vic:
Yeah, proper, you could—and it’s shallow ’trigger if it’s eight-quarter or no matter—however platter or no matter. Yeah, however nonetheless, I take advantage of these issues within the store on a regular basis.

Like folks say, “Oh, nicely, you’ve got that good workbench. Like, how do you not lose screws?” And I’m like, I’ve like somewhat—I’ve dishes and bowls and issues that I put my {hardware} in.

Ben:
You see, OK, so I’ll offer you this. Sure, that’s nice, however I drop screws as I’m taking them out of one thing, they usually fall by way of the holes, and that’s after I get actually pissed off.

Vic:
Oh, nicely, then possibly you must take a look at magnetizing your suggestions or one thing like that. Or being, you realize, not an fool—or cautious.

Ben:
Yeah.

All proper, so my scrap wooden challenge, there’s one factor that I make: turned handles for a weaving software my spouse sells. And, um, if the piece will work for that, then it’ll get put aside for these.

Apart from that, I’ve talked about it earlier than: the bakery that we go to on the town, they promote sq. buckets—which I like. Sq. buckets as a result of they’re very space-efficient. They promote them for 50 cents.

If the piece will match within the sq. bucket—after I’m completed reducing a chunk of wooden—if it’ll match within the sq. bucket, it goes within the sq. bucket. When that bucket is full, the lid is placed on, then it goes within the firewood stack.

And my spouse is mostly the one who begins fires within the afternoon, and, um, she doesn’t care what that piece of wooden seems like. But when that lid goes on that bucket, meaning I’m emotionally completed with no matter is in there.

And I’ve needed to simply say: that is my line. Like, if that bucket is full, I’d give it an actual fast look and possibly yank one factor out, however no. I’m. That has solved my wooden and scrap wooden hoarding drawback.

All proper, so now coming again round, right here’s one other query. Associated query: What’s the longest you’ve had an ideal piece of wooden mendacity round?

Vic:
Um, so, oh God. It’s gotta be shut to twenty years.

Ben:
That’s not too unhealthy.

Vic:
So, I imply, yeah, when you think about that I’ve been at it for about 25 years. Um, it’s a chunk of pear—Swiss pear—that I purchased and thought, oh, this might make like a implausible set of doorways, as a result of one edge is dwell, so it has this cool form of form.

And at the moment, and presently, I used to be closely influenced by Krenov and his concepts—the wooden telling you what it needs to be—and so, like, I take a look at that form and assume, oh, book-matched open, this might be attractive and create this lovely unfavorable house, and like, oh, lovely.

And so, to at the present time, I see that board each day in my wooden space. Each day I really feel somewhat pang of guilt that I haven’t completed something with but, however on the similar time, it’s a kind of loopy conditions the place I feel that wooden is an excessive amount of—lovely to make use of.

Ben:
Yeah. So, I imply, you’ll make the challenge at some point with it, proper?

Vic:
Oh positive, at some point I’ll, and at some point I’ll find yourself simply utilizing it and making a field and like, you realize, not utilizing it for its supposed form of form and wonder.

However like, I feel the excellence, although, is that you simply even have a challenge in thoughts with that piece of wooden. I simply don’t know which cupboard to construct, or what cupboard I want.

And what I acknowledge as I take a look at my dwelling, it’s like I’ve plenty of empty wall house as a result of I don’t have a ton of paintings. Um, and I imply the closest factor I’ve to paintings is my new Yamaha six-string classical that’s hanging on the wall.

Um, which once more, once we discuss issues that we didn’t want to purchase. However, um, anyway, I feel you wanted to. Seems a traditional neck is ideal when you’ve got naked arms or naked paws for arms.

So, um, however anyway, all that to say, like, you’d be like, oh, it’d be good to have a pleasant cupboard there, you realize, with a few properly, you realize, hand-thrown pots in there, or, you realize, these kinds of issues, as a result of to me, that’s extra inventive.

So, like, I even know the place I feel that cupboard would go. Proper? I feel it will go in my entryway, and I might probably put keys or no matter on it.

I feel this must occur in 2026. Is 2026 the 12 months I take advantage of this? I feel 25 years in—or 20, no matter, yeah.

Ben:
However see, like, I don’t assume that’s you hoarding a chunk of wooden, although. I feel that’s you ready till you need to make that challenge.

I’m gonna be an enabler right here, and I’m gonna say, good on you. And if you wish to make that—

However like, I don’t assume—like, in my head, typically it’s like that piece of wooden mendacity round is like, I don’t—like, all proper, right here’s mine.

I’ve an attractive piece of Jap white pine that’s 20 inches extensive, principally clear. I feel it’s 10 toes lengthy or one thing like that. You confirmed me that board.

Vic:
I feel, yeah.

Ben:
Barry Dima left it right here when he moved, and it was like, yoinks, that’s mine now, and possession is nine-tenths. I don’t know what I’ll do with it. I’ve no clue what I’ll do with it. I don’t actually do something in pine. And it’s simply lovely, and actually, I ought to most likely give it to a good friend.

There’s one other one, although, that I feel Jeff—possibly he can affirm or deny it. So my uncle—my spouse’s uncle—who’s a woodworker, when he discovered I used to be entering into woodworking about 15 years in the past or so, he gave me like a dozen little 8-inch Jorgensen clamps, that are nonetheless my most-used, favourite clamps, and two flamed maple boards.

And I knew on the time I used to be not prepared to make use of these maple boards. And, um, then they turned this bizarre factor for me that I moved with and I simply saved, after which finally after I was prepared for them, they weren’t that magical anymore. They’re like, oh, that’s only a flame maple board.

And it’s simply—so I feel I might need used considered one of them on prime of a aspect desk, after which one other one or two, I feel—like Jeff—Jeff is making Mike’s touring software chest. And he was like searching for wooden. I used to be like, use these, you realize, and I feel that’s what he was planning to make use of for his drawer fronts.

Um, so, uh, and if they’re, it’s like, I really feel like that’s the suitable use for it. As a result of I used to be so terrified of the boards, however I’m glad somebody’s gonna use them.

And Jeff, if I haven’t given them to you, they’re yours now.

Um, however yeah. So I simply—it’s like, I used to be too afraid of it.

However… so, simply yeah.

I’ll inform you what I’m extra relentless with: really, plywood scraps. A pleasant piece of Baltic birch, man.

So the best way I jig and fixture is, I make it with drywall screws and scorching glue. Like that—if I want a jig or fixture for one thing, that’s how I make it.

I don’t make everlasting hang-it-on-the-wall jigs and fixtures, as a result of my objective in life is to by no means construct the identical factor twice. And so, if I do, I don’t must maintain it round.

Um, so, if I’ve to make a jig, like, typically that—you realize, a two-inch by one-inch by three-quarter-inch piece of plywood is the right fence panel on there so as to add a Destaco clamp to, like lock it in place or no matter.

And so, I really maintain extra ins and outs of plywood than I do hardwood. As a result of I discover that I take advantage of them. Like I take advantage of them for stops. Typically I’ll hot-melt glue them to my bench.

Though these days with the perforated bench and all that different stuff, there are such a lot of locations to position stops that I don’t do it as typically. However I used to screw items of wooden to my bench or glue them to my bench.

I do know, I do know, and folks say, “Oh my God, it’s your workbench!” And it’s like, yeah, it’s a software. It’ll work.

Yeah, yeah, I’m working at it. I’m not serving cucumber sandwiches to royalty. So, um.

Vic:
Although there’s nothing improper with a great cucumber sandwich, I’ve come to study. Yeah, that’s a beautiful factor.

Ben:
However I’m extra inclined to be relentless with tiny little items of plywood. And I’ve like a field. After which as soon as that field will get overflowing, I take about 5—ten minutes—and I simply assess it.

And it’s like, OK. I’ve a number of little items this dimension, I can eliminate a number of of these. And since these—after which that’s trash, proper? Like, you possibly can’t burn it, no. You may’t—you realize. No matter, no matter.

So I’m somewhat extra cautious about it—what I throw away after I burn plywood.

Vic:
Yeah, I’m not in your own home.

Ben:
Effectively, I imply, we’ve got a wood-burning range, so it’s not like going—

Vic:
Oh, proper, proper, proper. I, that’s a person used to kindling plywood. It’s like the perfect kindling ever.

Ben:
All proper, nicely, it’s tremendous dry, nevertheless it’s the opposite situation that for me is rather like the chimney. I feel it gums up your chimney extra.

Uh, yeah, I’m simply utilizing it for firestarter, however, um, yeah, no, no, that’s not just like the BTU causes. However we do use plywood as kindling.

So, did you ever see the video of Ishitani Furnishings the place he makes—he takes sawdust and makes up this paste with paraffin, after which he compresses the block. He has this entire system that he made up.

After which, due to course, he heats his store with wooden, and he’s in northern Japan. So, like, it’s chilly there. He’s within the mountains.

And, um, he simply places a few these in, places the kindling excessive, lights it and walks away.

Vic:
See, I did that one time—I obtained little muffin tins and… you realize, you realize, uh, shavings and sawdust mashed up with paraffin, and I felt prefer it was tremendous wasteful of the wax the best way I used to be doing it.

I feel the best way you described it, the place he’s like compressing every thing, might be a bit extra legit. After which I felt just like the wax was gonna gum up my chimney. So I finished.

Ben:
Ah, OK, ’trigger when he does it, he appears to make it into the identical form of consistency like casting sand.

Vic:
Yeah, that was not how I used to be doing it.

Ben:
Yeah, yeah. He’s into woodworking; he’s higher at it than me.

Yeah, he’s so good. How can we get him on the podcast?

Yeah, all proper, um, okay. Favourite home hardwood from Kevin.

Vic:
Cherry, it’s a toss-up for me. Cherry or walnut, but when I—if my toes have been held to the hearth—I might say cherry.

Ben:
Yeah. For all of its points, it may be cantankerous, proper? Like lots of people say, oh, it really works completely, however when you pet it the improper approach—like curlies and cherry, man—like that doesn’t need to get alongside. Curlies and cherry will wreck your day.

After which ending it may be a problem due to the blotchiness of it. And, like, you realize, some folks swear they’ve the perfect system. They begin with a coat of shellac, then they do that.

And I feel, really, Christian Becksvoort—didn’t he do—like, clearly the grasp of cherry—however he did an article the place he talks about find out how to put together cherry in order that it doesn’t blotch.

However then, on the similar time, like, I’ve labored in cherry that was form of high-end figured, um, and like, then I didn’t need the blotch, due to the blotchiness. It’s similar to absorbing greater than—you realize—I didn’t need that to go away, essentially.

So, um. However similar to a pleasant—like I like rift-sawn cherry legs. Yeah, there’s nothing higher than that.

Uh, I’ll say, with the proper piece, rift-sawn ash will give it a run for its cash. And I’m going to say proper now, sure, total, when the guide is written on Ben Strano, cherry will most likely be the predominant wooden.

However proper now, I’m utilizing all of the ash I can.

Vic:
Effectively, yeah, as a result of it’s going to vanish.

Ben:
And I like it, and, um, God, I keep in mind the primary time I used ash, I used to be like, “That is terrible. Why would anybody ever do that? Why is everybody at all times speaking about ash?” And it’s like, no, dude, you simply suck at sharpening.

And—however like, now it’s similar to I made a prop desk, and it was—man—completely rift-sawn ash legs. Laborious to beat.

Vic:
Yeah, nicely, and such as you don’t get away with something. Ash reveals you precisely the place you’re at.

Ben:
Man. Yeah, as a result of when you, like, don’t reduce that piece proper and also you get that little little bit of runout, you’re gonna see it plain as day. Whereas with cherry, it’s somewhat bit extra forgiving.

You’re proper. Cherry, runner-up ash.

Vic:
Sure, I agree with that.

Ben:
Um, all proper.

[Ad break: Osborne Wood Products]

Ben:
I need to learn this one, and let’s say we’re not gonna trash something. However what software did you stay up for shopping for, but you have been disillusioned whenever you obtained it?

I’m going to reply this one fast: mixture airplane.

Like I had hopes and desires for my life with a mixture airplane and, um, I obtained one, and, uh, it was simply—it simply sat on the wall.

Classic? Uh, no, it was a brand new one. It was the brand new Veritas one proper when it got here out, and we obtained one in for evaluation. And I purchased it after the evaluation.

And, um, a beautiful airplane; it really works nice. I used to be like, it’s an important factor. It’s similar to, that’s not the woodworker I needed to be. That woodworker—it turned out I wasn’t.

After which, you realize, first 500 bucks I wanted, I bought it. , it was simply—uh—that was it.

I assumed it was a factor that I might actually get pleasure from utilizing, and I simply by no means used it.

Vic:
So, the mixture airplane is an fascinating one. As a result of, like, I labored for Veritas then when that was being developed, and um, it was Terry Saunders, who’s principally a legend, sat down with 15 totally different mixture planes from totally different eras, from totally different corporations. And it’s like, how can we make this factor really work?

Proper? As a result of the joke at all times was like, um, it was so fussy to arrange, proper? And everybody I knew who used one had six of them. And they might go away them arrange—that is my drawer one, that is my carcass one, that is my—you realize—all these kinds of issues.

And it’s like, may we make it? ’Trigger that’s a part of the heartache about that software is the change-out time, proper? As a result of you need to utterly reconfigure it, um, to make use of it.

And when you’re that particular person, then you’re going to get an excessive quantity of pleasure out of it.

As a result of the one factor that they did do is that they made the adjustable components—fences, stops, and all that different stuff—extra dependable and proper. In contrast to the unique ones, which have been somewhat shaky; the fence wasn’t parallel, and also you needed to—yeah—it was a little bit of a nuisance.

And so, like poor Terry, he was like—that was a tricky one. Proper? As a result of he needed to make it so it really—

‘Trigger my recommendation was, nicely, if it’s gonna work simply nearly as good because the originals, then I wouldn’t even hassle, as a result of like, they are often had for a lot much less cash.

Uh, and oftentimes, you realize, the joke was the explanation why you could find it mint within the field, all of the cutters are as a result of folks obtained annoyed with it and didn’t use it.

, so, yeah, like that’s a—like I by no means purchased a mixture airplane as a result of that wasn’t the best way that I needed to form of do issues.

Um, I’ve made picket planes, like a grooving airplane and issues like that, you realize, which can be a constant dimension I take advantage of for, you realize, no matter, after I need to work that approach.

Um, and typically I’ll construct somewhat one thing out of, like—and simply use all hand instruments, proper? Simply to remind myself that, you realize, that is precisely how they did it; that is what they did.

Um. However on the similar time, after I’m working in my like a form of pure setting, I take advantage of a mixture of the 2.

Proper? Um, and typically the router is loud. It’s dusty, it’s all these issues, nevertheless it’s fairly cool.

, after which, uh, the shaper by extension can also be like—you realize—it takes a few of the scariness out of simply utilizing a fence handheld router and making it a bit much less scary for folks.

However all that mentioned, I don’t know that I’ve ever been like that disillusioned. As a result of I’m fairly fastidious about researching stuff and, like, do I actually need it, and do I actually prefer it, do I actually assume that?

Like, I’ve been disillusioned with the standard of some issues. I assumed it ought to be higher than it was. However typically that’s simply subjective, I suppose—your personal head, proper? Like, I’ve a really low tolerance for instruments that don’t do what I feel they need to do.

I can keep in mind, um, chatting with Michael Fortune one time, and like Michael Fortune has all of the persistence on the earth for instruments that aren’t the perfect.

And so, I keep in mind being in his store and seeing him spraying with a twig end utilizing Harbor Freight weapons. And I’m like, how—how do you do this? And he says, “Ah, you simply get used to the very fact they drip on the finish of the factor. So I maintain a rag in my hand, and I spray, then I wipe. After which I spray, after which I wipe.”

And I’m like, I couldn’t do this. Like, I would like it to work the best way I feel it ought to work.

Ben:
And I’ll inform you, man, I’m the man—I must take a lesson from Michael Fortune, as a result of that Harbor Freight value level for a sprayer is the place my coronary heart is at.

Um. And, like, I’ve stared down many a Market, you realize, good high quality sprayer, and I simply—I can’t do it but, however, uh, at some point.

Vic:
I don’t spray due to the work dimension and the frequency at which I do it. It’s like it will take twice as a lot time to arrange and tear down than really use.

Ben:
In order that’s—and I really simply had Owen, um, who, you realize, sprays, you realize, on a regular basis.

Yeah, um. I had, like, he and I had a heart-to-heart about it, the place I used to be like, hear, man. Like, that is the issue I’m having. And he’s like, “Yeah, you gotta clear the gun after every thing you do.”

And I used to be like, yeah, however I’m doing a ukulele neck, and I spent 37 seconds spraying.

He mentioned, “Yeah, you then’ve obtained to wash the gun.” That’s simply the sport.

And it was like, OK. I do. And so, like, I’d—I don’t know. I like—I simply… It simply doesn’t match my thoughts of, like, I’m gonna do one thing for 37 seconds, then quarter-hour cleansing the gun. After which, an hour later, do the entire thing once more.

However that’s the sport. So if I would like that factor, I gotta do the factor.

However—nicely, I don’t agree—like, I imply, if I have been making ukuleles, I might be utilizing rattle cans.

Um, nicely, I take advantage of rattle cans for small stuff on a regular basis. Like if that’s what the end I’m searching for is, I’ve been wanting—so yeah—I’ve been desirous to go water-based end, although.

Simply because I—I—I really feel prefer it, however you are able to do that with a rattle can. I don’t know if I’ve—I don’t know if I do know of any rattle-can water-based finishes that will be acceptable for an instrument, however possibly I want to take a look at it.

Vic:
There’s plenty of new stuff on the market, particularly on the waterborne aspect of issues. Like, are you simply searching for, like, one thing to switch a catalyzed lacquer type? What sort of factor?

Ben:
That’s what I might do, yeah. So proper now I’ve been utilizing, um—and I actually—my latest uke—I actually just like the end I obtained. Crystalac has a end that’s water-based, it’s, um, you realize, they’re pre-finished with a slight amber tone added to it. So it provides you that type of oil-based look factor, that heat.

Um, I used to be actually happy with the end I obtained. It’s not the identical. It’s not the identical as it will likely be, and it by no means shall be. However I simply—I’ve it in my head that 20 years from now, like, that’s type of what we’re doing, so possibly I ought to begin strolling that approach and getting used to it or figuring it out now, you realize.

Vic:
Certain. Um, nicely, you possibly can at all times—like, I imply, with a rattle can. You may’t—However you possibly can’t add toner or something.

Ben:
Like I—I imply, I may rattle-can toner like if I went with rattle-can lacquer. I may rattle-can toner on it, you realize.

Yeah. I feel we obtained a bit off topic there.

Vic:
Yeah, I don’t even keep in mind the unique query was.

Ben:
Uh, disappointment in instruments, um—yeah, utterly off.

Um, OK, this one makes me giggle. ’Trigger I don’t know the way it is a query. Judging, you’re gonna be like, yeah, it’s fairly clear that Ben doesn’t have, you realize, something to say about these. Snacks within the store? Sure or no? You gotta have a snack.

Vic:
Effectively, first off, that is my work space. In fact there’re snacks in right here.

Ben:
Yeah, yeah, I imply, like, I feel it is dependent upon how a lot time you spend within the store, proper? Like, you permit your own home within the morning, and also you come out to your store and also you spend the day in there and stuff.

And it’s like, you realize, you go in for lunch, I presume.

Vic:
I eat out; I’ve lunch out right here more often than not.

Ben:
Oh, do you? OK, um. However for me, like, my store is connected; it’s like a storage to the home. And so, like, it’s very fast for me to only zip upstairs and make a cup of espresso rapidly, you realize, seize a protein bar or a cookie or no matter, and head again down once more.

Um, so I wouldn’t—I don’t retailer snacks in my store.

Um, however yeah, after all, like, as a result of that little little bit of a espresso break—like that’s the place, like, you realize, you cease, second, you go searching and also you assume, and you want, oh, I’m gonna do that, and like, you realize—or particularly, like, I’ll go and get a espresso if I’m stumped on one thing.

As a result of whereas I’m making a cup of tea, espresso, and like I’m pondering the entire time; then, like, oftentimes as I’m strolling again to the storage, I’m like, “Oh yeah, yeah,” that’s what I can do.

I additionally assume there’s one thing to be mentioned for a scorching cup of espresso within the store. That makes you conscious of it.

Like me, I can’t stand it when scorching espresso will get chilly. So it’s like, OK, what am I doing? All proper, I must drink that now. I must drink that espresso too. I must—like—it retains me from getting too far within the zone.

And typically that’s a great factor, particularly early within the day for me.

[Ad break: Gorilla Wood Glue]

Ben:
This one I actually like, once more from Kevin. Uh, what’s your on a regular basis carry within the store?

And I feel you’ve written a weblog on this together with your little holster, Haven’t you?

Vic:
Yeah. What’s in it relies upon.

Ben:
Oh, I assumed it was a really fastened factor for you.

Vic:
Effectively, it was at one level, after which what I spotted about that’s I take advantage of totally different instruments; I want totally different instruments accessible rapidly at totally different phases of the construct.

So, when I’m processing materials to make components, like I want a measuring tape. And I want a lumber crayon, and essentially the most constancy—the lumber crayon—is concerning the highest-fidelity software that I want at that time.

And so I’ve, um, I’ve somewhat pouch that was made by, um, Leather-based by Dragonfly—was made together with, um, with Brian Sedgeley from the pageant. It’s referred to as the Sedge.

Um, and it’s principally this small software pouch that has a predominant compartment, after which it has a number of outer compartments. It’s obtained some magnets laid into it. So you possibly can rapidly put, like, a—so whenever you work with plenty of quick instruments, you study to maintain a 4- and 5-mil hex on you always, as a result of that’s what they use.

Um, and so it has a spot for a marking gauge, proper? It has a barely in a different way formed pouch for that.

Um, so oftentimes, what I’ll do is I’ll use—like, I take instruments out of it. However then I put instruments into it, proper?

So, if I then go on to the joinery part, nicely, oftentimes I’ve a few particular instruments—squares and issues—that I take advantage of on a regular basis, and so then, like, that’s what’s in there.

Um, so it’s—after which if I’m working—like after I’m constructing one thing in the home, proper—similar factor. Like, I can take every thing out of that, and, you realize, put like a few electrician instruments—screwdrivers and linemen cutters and stuff—like that in it, and it really works equally as nicely.

Um, so, like, I don’t assume I’ve an on a regular basis carry. Like one thing that’s at all times on me.

Really, if I’m gonna—I’m gonna say the perfect factor I ever purchased was a clip for my belt. Permits me to hold my ear defenders on them.

Ben:
Oh, so folks that go to ranges and stuff like that, yeah.

Vic:
I don’t know if that’s a giant factor within the US, or not, however I’ve heard of it. No? OK.

Um, however yeah, it’s simply principally a clip with a flexible-like design—plastic bit—you could push out of the best way then hold your ear defenders on.

I’m very fastidious because of my listening to issues from previous noise publicity. Um, I can’t—like, um—I can’t cease the tinnitus, the sound that I hear in my head, however I can forestall it from getting worse.

So, you know the way whenever you use the chop noticed and simply rapidly reduce like that? “Oh, it’s only a fast reduce.” Effectively, for me, I can’t do this as a result of it’s gonna result in an increasing number of issues.

Neither ought to anybody else, actually, when you’re involved in any respect about your listening to.

Um, I at all times have my ear defenders, like, growth—proper there each time.

Ben:
I, uh, I’ve obtained my earmuffs that dwell on the bandsaw, and that’s as a result of it’s the large drawback baby for me.

Um, I’ve gotten to the purpose the place it’s, uh, 90% of the time I’m utilizing AirPods—or Air—what are the AirPods? AirPods? Yeah.

I began to appreciate these issues are literally actually good at it. They’re good for constant sounds. They’re not nice for percussive sounds. They’re not nice for, um—after which there’s some issues which can be simply too dang loud.

Um, CNC is one which’s like, nope, that’s not reducing it. Um, you realize, like heavy router use—nope—simply put the earmuffs on. Dude, like, do the factor.

Um, I don’t assume they’re a substitute. I feel that they’re a great—uh—like they’re the store apron. You don’t must have it on you on a regular basis, however you may as nicely.

.

Um, all proper. Yeah, uh, on a regular basis carry for me—I nearly—I don’t know if anybody observed, however, uh, I now at all times have a mechanical pencil with me. My breast pocket holds a pen and a ruler. I carry them all over the place I’m going.

And like, I don’t proper now at this second, it’s throwing me off whereas we’re right here recording a podcast, um. These two issues are simply stone-cold on a regular basis carry.

Uh, I even have that—my Rock— I obtained it since you’ve obtained one—the knife—the Stanley blade pocket knife factor, you realize. Uh, that’s an on a regular basis carry factor for me.

However then additionally shop-wise: if I’m in woodworking mode, I normally have a card scraper on me. Um, simply because it features like a—oh, I must examine sq. on one thing actual fast. Or I must—you realize—it’s like, it’s not only a card scraper.

However, um: card scraper after which, uh, a knife. These are like gotta-have objects.

Vic:
So, nicely, I imply, to be truthful, after I’m not milling materials, oftentimes these issues are—all of these issues are in my pouch, proper? So my Myro knife, my, um, card scraper—I’ve, like, a thick card scraper the scale of a enterprise card, um, and it’s good for taking the errant glue off one thing actually rapidly, or like cleansing off a chunk of glue that’s errant caught to the bench or no matter.

Um, yeah, so, um.

So yeah, I imply, I’ve all of these issues. However like I mentioned, it is dependent upon, you realize, what I’m engaged on and what I want at every particular person stage.

Ben:
Um, all proper, Vicky, you’ve got time for yet one more?

Vic:
All proper.

Ben:
Uh. This one: Macha—when did you are feeling such as you knew what you have been doing?

I’ll let you realize. I keep in mind I had a really distinct one the place I used to be making a fast factor for my spouse. Like, you realize, I simply want one thing to place the factor on. It was like no matter scrap was mendacity round, and I keep in mind going by way of all of the processes and doing the entire issues that I watch the professional woodworkers do on a regular basis.

And I keep in mind after I simply reduce boards, they usually have been good—good dimension—proper off the noticed, and it was like every thing completely lined up flush. And it was like a factor that I used to be simply throwing collectively on a Saturday morning, and every thing was coming collectively, and I used to be like, oh. Perhaps—possibly I’m studying find out how to get good at this.

And that was my second.

However yeah, I had a—I imply, I type of joke as a result of, I imply, you possibly can’t know every thing, however you possibly can’t have all of it all labored out.

Vic:
However, um, I feel it was an identical second for me, the place I used to be like, it’s virtually like meditating. It’s like whilst you’re meditating, when you assume, “Oh, I’m meditating,” you’re not meditating, proper?

However after the very fact, I feel I knocked collectively one thing fast and, like—however fast, however sophisticated, proper? Nevertheless it’s like, oh, I must make a field for this, and I simply go growth, growth, growth, growth. Increase. After which it was completed.

After which on the finish of it, I used to be like, huh. That was very low effort or not plenty of pondering, you realize? Proper? And like—and that’s the factor.

So, like, whenever you begin form of like, um, when instruments simply turn into an extension of you, proper?

And I can keep in mind—like, I keep in mind I had this second as a pupil after I was at Rosewood, and Garrett Hack was up instructing. I used to be watching him use his block airplane, and it’s like that factor is simply, like—it’s like he took his hand off and put the block airplane on, and like—simply—it was an extension of his physique.

And it’s like—and I assumed like, oh man, I hope to get to that stage. And that’s like, um, what’s that referred to as? That’s referred to as, um—

Ben:
Competent?

Vic:
Yeah, yeah, nicely, yeah, nevertheless it’s like unconscious competency.

Ben:
OK, yeah, oh, dang. That’s the phrase.

Vic:
So principally, it’s like whenever you don’t have to consider it—find out how to use the handplane in your hand—and also you simply do it. You simply do the duty that it’s meant to do. That’s whenever you’ve form of gotten to some extent the place it’s like, OK, you’ve mastered that software. Yeah, proper?

And so it’s like, that’s whenever you— you’ve got this kind—And I don’t know the place that time period got here from, I learn it in a guide someplace that had nothing to do with woodworking, nevertheless it was about form of this form of like—you don’t have to consider it. You simply do what you’re alleged to do with it.

Ben:
And it’s the title of this episode: “Unconscious competency.” Thanks, Vic.

Vic:
My pleasure.

Ben:
All proper, nicely, go, go have a soothing, uh, mojito on the seashore.

Vic:
I’ll. I, I, uh, I can see the bartender down there, and he’s like, “The place is my amigo?”

Ben:
Vic? Yeah, there we go. All proper, man. Effectively, thanks.

I’m positive you and I’ll speak earlier than 2026. However, um… to the podcast viewers, thanks for being round for 2025—or 2026—and into 2026.

And, uh, thanks for listening and all that. And I suppose we’re—that is it. We’re gonna do a dwell outro. Haven’t completed considered one of these shortly, however, uh, you realize: click on that thumbs-up on YouTube. Uh, go away a five-star evaluation on iTunes or no matter it’s.

And I don’t know when you evaluation on Spotify. I don’t—I don’t know Spotify or something.

So, uh, yeah, and head on over to ShoptalkLive.com, uh, take a look at the present notes and all of the stuff we’ve obtained occurring. However thanks for being part of Advantageous Woodworking group and listening, and subscribing, and all of that stuff, and giving us a motive to do all this.

So, Vic, thanks, since you’re simply such an enormous a part of what we do right here, and I respect you greater than you ever know.

Vic:
My pleasure.

Ben:
All proper, I’m going to cease recording.

Vic:
I, it’s gonna get arduous—it’s gonna be arduous to get out of the behavior of getting a mimosa breakfast.